{"id":965,"date":"2017-12-05T22:23:20","date_gmt":"2017-12-05T21:23:20","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/?p=965"},"modified":"2022-06-29T10:58:54","modified_gmt":"2022-06-29T08:58:54","slug":"la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/","title":{"rendered":"La Soci\u00e9t\u00e9 contre l&rsquo;Etat &#8211; Pierre Clastres"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Pour nous qui vivons dedans, <strong>l&rsquo;\u00e9tat est une \u00e9vidence<\/strong>. Une de ces <strong><a href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/11\/24\/politique-101-a-bas-la-hierarchie\/\">structures hi\u00e9rarchiques p\u00e9nibles<\/a><\/strong> pour tout le monde mais dont il semble <strong>pas vraiment possible de se passer<\/strong>. Mais <strong>la soci\u00e9t\u00e9 peut elle exister sans \u00e9tat<\/strong>, et <strong>les soci\u00e9t\u00e9s sans \u00e9tat sont elle des soci\u00e9t\u00e9s \u00e0 qui il manque quelque chose ?<\/strong> Voila en gros les questions auquel ce bouquin essaye de r\u00e9pondre.<\/p>\n<p><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" data-attachment-id=\"967\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/la-societe-contre-letat\/\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/La-Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9-contre-lEtat.png?fit=602%2C602&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"602,602\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"La Soci\u00e9t\u00e9 contre l&amp;rsquo;Etat\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/La-Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9-contre-lEtat.png?fit=602%2C602&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/La-Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9-contre-lEtat.png?resize=602%2C602&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" width=\"602\" height=\"602\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-967\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/La-Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9-contre-lEtat.png?w=602&amp;ssl=1 602w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/La-Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9-contre-lEtat.png?resize=150%2C150&amp;ssl=1 150w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/La-Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9-contre-lEtat.png?resize=300%2C300&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/La-Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9-contre-lEtat.png?resize=270%2C270&amp;ssl=1 270w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 602px) 100vw, 602px\" \/><\/p>\n<div id=\"ez-toc-container\" class=\"ez-toc-v2_0_82_2 counter-hierarchy ez-toc-counter ez-toc-grey ez-toc-container-direction\">\n<div class=\"ez-toc-title-container\">\n<p class=\"ez-toc-title\" style=\"cursor:inherit\">Table des mati\u00e8res<\/p>\n<span class=\"ez-toc-title-toggle\"><a href=\"#\" class=\"ez-toc-pull-right ez-toc-btn ez-toc-btn-xs ez-toc-btn-default ez-toc-toggle\" aria-label=\"Toggle Table of Content\"><span class=\"ez-toc-js-icon-con\"><span class=\"\"><span class=\"eztoc-hide\" style=\"display:none;\">Toggle<\/span><span class=\"ez-toc-icon-toggle-span\"><svg style=\"fill: #999;color:#999\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" class=\"list-377408\" width=\"20px\" height=\"20px\" viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\" fill=\"none\"><path d=\"M6 6H4v2h2V6zm14 0H8v2h12V6zM4 11h2v2H4v-2zm16 0H8v2h12v-2zM4 16h2v2H4v-2zm16 0H8v2h12v-2z\" fill=\"currentColor\"><\/path><\/svg><svg style=\"fill: #999;color:#999\" class=\"arrow-unsorted-368013\" xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"10px\" height=\"10px\" viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\" version=\"1.2\" baseProfile=\"tiny\"><path d=\"M18.2 9.3l-6.2-6.3-6.2 6.3c-.2.2-.3.4-.3.7s.1.5.3.7c.2.2.4.3.7.3h11c.3 0 .5-.1.7-.3.2-.2.3-.5.3-.7s-.1-.5-.3-.7zM5.8 14.7l6.2 6.3 6.2-6.3c.2-.2.3-.5.3-.7s-.1-.5-.3-.7c-.2-.2-.4-.3-.7-.3h-11c-.3 0-.5.1-.7.3-.2.2-.3.5-.3.7s.1.5.3.7z\"\/><\/svg><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/a><\/span><\/div>\n<nav><ul class='ez-toc-list ez-toc-list-level-1 ' ><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-1'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-1\" href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/#le_bouquin\" >le bouquin<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-1'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-2\" href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/#Le_contenu\" >Le contenu<\/a><ul class='ez-toc-list-level-2' ><li class='ez-toc-heading-level-2'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-3\" href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/#Les_societes_ameridiennes\" >Les soci\u00e9t\u00e9s am\u00e9ridiennes<\/a><ul class='ez-toc-list-level-3' ><li class='ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-4\" href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/#Prendre_les_%C2%AB_sauvages_%C2%BB_au_serieux\" >Prendre les \u00ab\u00a0sauvages\u00a0\u00bb au s\u00e9rieux<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-5\" href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/#Prendre_lampleur_du_massacre\" >Prendre l&rsquo;ampleur du massacre<\/a><\/li><\/ul><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-2'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-6\" href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/#La_societe_vs_lEtat\" >La soci\u00e9t\u00e9 vs l&rsquo;Etat<\/a><ul class='ez-toc-list-level-3' ><li class='ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-7\" href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/#Des_chefs_qui_cheffent_pas\" >Des chefs qui cheffent pas<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-8\" href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/#Des_constructions_sociales_pour_eviter_le_pouvoir\" >Des constructions sociales pour \u00e9viter le pouvoir<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-9\" href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/#Societes_de_labondance_et_du_temps_libre\" >Soci\u00e9t\u00e9s de l&rsquo;abondance et du temps libre<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-10\" href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/#primaute_de_la_question_autoritaire\" >primaut\u00e9 de la question autoritaire<\/a><\/li><li class='ez-toc-page-1 ez-toc-heading-level-3'><a class=\"ez-toc-link ez-toc-heading-11\" href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/#Euh_gars_tas_pas_un_peu_oublie_un_truc\" >Euh gars t&rsquo;as pas un peu oubli\u00e9 un truc?<\/a><\/li><\/ul><\/li><\/ul><\/li><\/ul><\/nav><\/div>\n<h1><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"le_bouquin\"><\/span>le bouquin<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h1>\n<p>J&rsquo;ai probablement d&rsquo;abord entendu parler de ce livre de <strong>Pierre Clastres<\/strong> via<strong> David Graeber<\/strong> et son travail sur <strong>anthropologie et anarchisme<\/strong>. Notamment via ce bouquin (<a href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/02\/23\/pour-une-anthropologie-anarchiste-david-graeber\/\"><strong>Pour une Anthropologie Anarchiste<\/strong><\/a>) mais aussi via sa conf\u00e9rence que j&rsquo;avais cit\u00e9 dans mon article <a href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2016\/07\/19\/50000-ans-dhistoire\/\"><strong>50000 ans d&rsquo;Histoire<\/strong><\/a>. J&rsquo;en avais ensuite un peu parl\u00e9 avec la cr\u00e9atrice de la chaine <strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/channel\/UCLhOJJbPciPdocXTaAk2SdA\">Pass\u00e9 Sauvage<\/a><\/strong> (dont j&rsquo;ai parl\u00e9 <a href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/11\/09\/ondee-1-bullshitometre-clivage-penis-maya-satan\/\">l\u00e0<\/a>) qui m&rsquo;avait confirmer que c&rsquo;\u00e9tait une r\u00e9f\u00e9rence. <strong>Bref je l&rsquo;attendais ce bouquin.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" data-attachment-id=\"1022\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/hyped\/\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/HYPED.gif?fit=480%2C327&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"480,327\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"HYPED\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/HYPED.gif?fit=480%2C327&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/HYPED.gif?resize=480%2C327&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" width=\"480\" height=\"327\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-1022\"><\/p>\n<p>Au final, pour tout avouer, j&rsquo;ai \u00e9t\u00e9 un poil d\u00e9\u00e7u par le bouquin. Mais c&rsquo;est aussi sans doute parce que j&rsquo;en attendais trop.<\/p>\n<p>Le bouquin pr\u00e9sente une <strong>compilation de textes de Pierre Clastres<\/strong>, principalement des articles d\u00e9j\u00e0 paru ailleurs qui pr\u00e9sentent son travail sur les soci\u00e9t\u00e9s am\u00e9rindiennes. En fait seul les deux premiers chapitres et le dernier chapitre traitent pleinement du sujet du pouvoir dans les soci\u00e9t\u00e9s am\u00e9rindiennes. Le reste apporte des \u00e9l\u00e9ments de <strong>contexte qui renforce certes la th\u00e8se du bouquin<\/strong>, et qui sont tr\u00e8s int\u00e9ressant pour la mettre en perspective, mais qui ne sont malheureusement pas \u00e9crit autour de la question centrale du livre. Encore une fois avec un <a href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/08\/14\/histoire-des-pirates-et-des-corsaires-de-lantiquite-a-nos-jours-g-buti-p-hrodej-et-al\/\">bouquin acad\u00e9mique<\/a> on trouve une <strong>compilation un peu brute<\/strong> qui manque un peu de travail d&rsquo;\u00e9dition pour ajouter du liant.<\/p>\n<p>Bon apr\u00e8s ca reste un tr\u00e8s bon bouquin, et franchement <strong>j&rsquo;ai bien kiff\u00e9 et j&rsquo;ai appris des trucs<\/strong>.<\/p>\n<h1><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Le_contenu\"><\/span>Le contenu<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h1>\n<p>Alors qu&rsquo;est ce qu&rsquo;on y apprend de cool dans ce bouquin ?<\/p>\n<h2><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Les_societes_ameridiennes\"><\/span>Les soci\u00e9t\u00e9s am\u00e9ridiennes<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h2>\n<p>Bah d\u00e9j\u00e0, le premier truc avec ce bouquin c&rsquo;est qu&rsquo;il raconte <strong>pleins de choses sur des soci\u00e9t\u00e9s qu&rsquo;on conna\u00eet peu<\/strong> (en tout cas moi). A savoir les am\u00e9rindiens, avec un focus surtout concentr\u00e9 sur <strong>l&rsquo;Amazonie<\/strong>. Le livre examine tout un tas d&rsquo;aspects de ces soci\u00e9t\u00e9s : <strong>d\u00e9mographie, relations entre les groupes, cultures, philosophie, religion,<\/strong> dans une suite de chapitres assez courts et assez plaisant \u00e0 lire (allez sauf peut \u00eatre celui sur l&rsquo;exogamie). Il s&rsquo;attarde aussi sur des sujets qui peuvent sembler WTF genre \u00ab\u00a0les <strong>blagues <\/strong>chez les indiens\u00a0\u00bb ou \u00ab\u00a0la <strong>torture<\/strong>\u00a0\u00bb mais qui en fait apprennent vachement de choses.<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Prendre_les_%C2%AB_sauvages_%C2%BB_au_serieux\"><\/span>Prendre les \u00ab\u00a0sauvages\u00a0\u00bb au s\u00e9rieux<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>Le livre commence en gros sur cette injonction. Les soci\u00e9t\u00e9s diff\u00e9rentes de la notre ne sont <strong>pas moins \u00e9volu\u00e9es, moins abouties que la notre<\/strong>. Et m\u00eame les soci\u00e9t\u00e9s de nos anc\u00eatres lointains ne doivent pas \u00eatre consid\u00e9r\u00e9es comme <strong>inabouties, primitives ou incompl\u00e8tes<\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Bon je dirais pas que j&rsquo;ai appris grand chose l\u00e0 dedans mais c&rsquo;est sans doute toujours salutaire \u00e0 rappeler. En fait c&rsquo;est vraiment tr\u00e8s <strong>basique<\/strong> comme id\u00e9e, je veux dire tu r\u00e9fl\u00e9chis cinq minute en sortant ton ethnocentrisme et ca semble compl\u00e8tement \u00e9vident.<\/p>\n<p><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" data-attachment-id=\"1031\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/ethnocentrism\/\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/ethnocentrism.jpg?fit=600%2C480&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"600,480\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"ethnocentrism\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/ethnocentrism.jpg?fit=600%2C480&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/ethnocentrism.jpg?resize=600%2C480&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" width=\"600\" height=\"480\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-1031\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/ethnocentrism.jpg?w=600&amp;ssl=1 600w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/ethnocentrism.jpg?resize=300%2C240&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/ethnocentrism.jpg?resize=338%2C270&amp;ssl=1 338w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\" \/><\/p>\n<p>Je me demande en fait combien de temps il faudra encore le rappeler. Il me semble que les pr\u00e9misses de l&rsquo;id\u00e9e se trouvent m\u00eame jusque chez H\u00e9rodote qui \u00e9tait d\u00e9j\u00e0 l\u00e0 en mode : <strong>\u00ab\u00a0non mais les barbares ils parlent chelou, mais en fait ils sont int\u00e9ressants\u00a0\u00bb<\/strong>. Bon et l\u00e0 dans un bouquin acad\u00e9mique \u00e9crit dans les ann\u00e9es 70, et plut\u00f4t (au moins initialement) destin\u00e9 \u00e0 un public averti qu&rsquo;au clampin moyen, il semble qu&rsquo;il faille encore le rappeler en intro. Je suis sans doute un peu plus proche du clampin moyen que le public initial du bouquin et \u00e7a me semble vraiment \u00e9vident, du coup je me demande <strong>si \u00e7a a un peu \u00e9volu\u00e9 depuis&#8230; ou pas<\/strong>.<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Prendre_lampleur_du_massacre\"><\/span>Prendre l&rsquo;ampleur du massacre<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>Un second truc que j&rsquo;ai trouv\u00e9 int\u00e9ressant dans ce bouquin c&rsquo;est la partie sur <strong>la d\u00e9mographie<\/strong>. L&rsquo;auteur montre que <strong>loin d&rsquo;\u00eatre un continent d\u00e9sert<\/strong> \u00e0 l&rsquo;arriv\u00e9 des Europ\u00e9ens, l\u2019Am\u00e9rique du sud, et m\u00eame la partie Amazonienne (qui nous appara\u00eet comme une jungle inhospitali\u00e8re) \u00e9tait grave <strong>peupl\u00e9e<\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Bon l\u00e0 aussi on va dire que j&rsquo;\u00e9tais d\u00e9j\u00e0 bien familiaris\u00e9 avec cette id\u00e9e, qui commence \u00e0 bien se r\u00e9pandre. Mais sa <strong>d\u00e9monstration reste int\u00e9ressante<\/strong> (s&rsquo;appuyant \u00e0 la fois sur les textes des premiers Europ\u00e9ens et sur de la reconstruction statistique). Par contre j&rsquo;ai un peu \u00e9t\u00e9 surpris car je pensais que cette \u00ab\u00a0d\u00e9couverte\u00a0\u00bb \u00e9tait plus r\u00e9cente. J&rsquo;avais lu cet \u00e9t\u00e9 <strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.mediapart.fr\/journal\/international\/170717\/enfer-vert-ou-paradis-terrestre-la-destruction-du-mythe-amazonien?onglet=full\">un dossier de Mediapart<\/a><\/strong> sur l&rsquo;Amazonie qui \u00e9voquait des recherches depuis une \u00ab\u00a0vingtaine d&rsquo;ann\u00e9e\u00a0\u00bb&#8230; bon manifestement en fait d\u00e8s 1974 au moins l&rsquo;id\u00e9e tournait d\u00e9j\u00e0.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.mediapart.fr\/journal\/international\/170717\/enfer-vert-ou-paradis-terrestre-la-destruction-du-mythe-amazonien?onglet=full\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" data-attachment-id=\"1032\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/mediapart-amazonie\/\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/mediapart-amazonie.png?fit=666%2C234&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"666,234\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"mediapart amazonie\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/mediapart-amazonie.png?fit=640%2C225&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/mediapart-amazonie.png?resize=640%2C225&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" width=\"640\" height=\"225\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-1032\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/mediapart-amazonie.png?w=666&amp;ssl=1 666w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/mediapart-amazonie.png?resize=300%2C105&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/mediapart-amazonie.png?resize=604%2C212&amp;ssl=1 604w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>Apr\u00e8s c&rsquo;est doublement int\u00e9ressant. D&rsquo;un c\u00f4t\u00e9 <strong>pour le sujet du bouquin<\/strong>: clairement c&rsquo;est pas pareil de dire que tu vas fonctionner <strong>sans hi\u00e9rarchie<\/strong> quand t&rsquo;es <strong>un groupe de 10<\/strong> ou quand t&rsquo;es <strong>une soci\u00e9t\u00e9 de plusieurs milliers de personnes<\/strong>. Et d&rsquo;un autre c\u00f4t\u00e9 c&rsquo;est toujours sid\u00e9rant de se dire qu&rsquo;avec l&rsquo;arriv\u00e9e des Europ\u00e9ens (et de leurs maladies) en Am\u00e9rique c&rsquo;est <strong>plus de 90% de la population locale (et la majorit\u00e9 de la population mondiale)<\/strong> qui est morte en quelques ann\u00e9es.<\/p>\n<h2><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"La_societe_vs_lEtat\"><\/span>La soci\u00e9t\u00e9 vs l&rsquo;Etat<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h2>\n<p>Pour en venir maintenant au sujet principale et <strong>th\u00e8se du bouquin<\/strong>&#8230; pourquoi une grande partie des soci\u00e9t\u00e9s am\u00e9rindiennes (\u00e0 l&rsquo;exceptions des quelques empires) \u00e9taient <strong>des soci\u00e9t\u00e9s sans \u00e9tat<\/strong>, et qu&rsquo;est ce que \u00e7a veut dire.<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Des_chefs_qui_cheffent_pas\"><\/span>Des chefs qui cheffent pas<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>Bon, <strong>l&rsquo;image du chef indien<\/strong>, on l&rsquo;a tous: le gars avec la coiffe de plumes qui fume le calumet. Du coup <strong>c&rsquo;est quoi cette merde gauchiste <\/strong>de dire que c&rsquo;\u00e9tait des soci\u00e9t\u00e9s sans \u00e9tat, sans pouvoir, sans hi\u00e9rarchie, alors que <strong>y&rsquo;avait des chefs \u00e0 plumes ?<\/strong> Disney peut pas nous avoir menti quand m\u00eame hein ?<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_1033\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-1033\" style=\"width: 640px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.smithsonianmag.com\/arts-culture\/racist-history-peter-pan-indian-tribe-180953500\/\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" data-attachment-id=\"1033\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/indian\/\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/indian.jpg?fit=1072%2C720&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"1072,720\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"indian\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"&lt;p&gt;la g\u00e9nance&amp;#8230; &lt;\/p&gt;\n\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/indian.jpg?fit=640%2C430&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/indian.jpg?resize=640%2C430&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" width=\"640\" height=\"430\" class=\"size-large wp-image-1033\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/indian.jpg?resize=1024%2C688&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/indian.jpg?resize=300%2C201&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/indian.jpg?resize=768%2C516&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/indian.jpg?resize=402%2C270&amp;ssl=1 402w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/indian.jpg?w=1072&amp;ssl=1 1072w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\" \/><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-1033\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">la g\u00e9nance&#8230;<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>Bon en fait si on y regarde de plus pr\u00eat, en gros <strong>\u00eatre \u00ab\u00a0chef\u00a0\u00bb<\/strong> chez les am\u00e9rindiens c&rsquo;\u00e9tait pas vraiment la m\u00eame que chez les Europ\u00e9ens. Le gars <strong>d\u00e9cide de rien<\/strong> en fait. <strong>Il parle<\/strong> (beaucoup, mais genre vraiment beaucoup), tout le monde lui demande d&rsquo;ailleurs tout le temps de faire <strong>des putains de discours<\/strong>, mais en fait tout le monde s&rsquo;en balec de ce qu&rsquo;il dit (d&rsquo;ailleurs il radote vraisemblablement toujours la m\u00eame chose). Tout le monde vient aussi <strong>lui taper ses affaires et sa bouffe<\/strong> (parce que le chef doit \u00eatre <strong>g\u00e9n\u00e9reux <\/strong>tavu) et vu que personne bosse pour lui c&rsquo;est probablement <strong>le mec qui taf le plus<\/strong> de tout le groupe pour assurer les cadeaux. Et le seul truc sur lequel le gars se refait, c&rsquo;est qu&rsquo;il ken de ouf parce qu&rsquo;il a acc\u00e8s \u00e0 <strong>plus de femmes que les autres<\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Vla le chef&#8230; apr\u00e8s en gros il est respect\u00e9 et doit <strong>maintenir la coh\u00e9sion<\/strong> sociale du groupe. Mais il a <strong>aucun moyen coercitif<\/strong> pour y arriver, juste des bonnes paroles. Donc \u00e7a va \u00eatre plus de <strong>la m\u00e9diation, de la recherche de consensus,<\/strong> et des indications g\u00e9n\u00e9rales et vagues que des grandes d\u00e9cisions tr\u00e8s tranch\u00e9es.<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Des_constructions_sociales_pour_eviter_le_pouvoir\"><\/span>Des constructions sociales pour \u00e9viter le pouvoir<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>L\u00e0 ou \u00e7a devient int\u00e9ressant, c&rsquo;est qu&rsquo;en fait une bonne partie des constructions de ces soci\u00e9t\u00e9s et m\u00eame pr\u00e9cis\u00e9ment ce r\u00f4le de chef un peu chelou, sont des trucs tr\u00e8s codifi\u00e9s qui semblent avoir \u00e9t\u00e9 <strong>fait \u00ab\u00a0expr\u00e8s\u00a0\u00bb pour \u00e9viter l&rsquo;apparition de \u00ab\u00a0vrais\u00a0\u00bb chefs.<\/strong> Il y a tout un tas de rituels pour <strong>\u00e9viter l&rsquo;apparition de chefs autoritaires<\/strong>, mais aussi pour g\u00e9rer le besoin <strong>temporaire <\/strong>d&rsquo;autorit\u00e9 forte.<\/p>\n<p>C&rsquo;est l\u00e0 qu&rsquo;appara\u00eet le <strong>r\u00f4le de chef de guerre<\/strong>. Parce que ouai, pour allez tabasser les copains, l&rsquo;autorit\u00e9 est un truc plut\u00f4t efficace (cf <a href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/11\/24\/politique-101-a-bas-la-hierarchie\/\"><strong>ce que je disais l\u00e0<\/strong><\/a>). Donc le chef pouvait devenir, le temps d&rsquo;une exp\u00e9dition militaire un chef autoritaire, mais c&rsquo;\u00e9tait un r\u00f4le <strong>temporaire<\/strong>.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_1034\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-1034\" style=\"width: 500px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" data-attachment-id=\"1034\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/war\/\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/war.jpg?fit=500%2C321&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"500,321\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;0&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"war\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"&lt;p&gt;Bon et \u00e9videmment du coup la guerre \u00e9tait un de leur hobby favori&amp;#8230; &lt;\/p&gt;\n\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/war.jpg?fit=500%2C321&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/war.jpg?resize=500%2C321&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" width=\"500\" height=\"321\" class=\"size-full wp-image-1034\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/war.jpg?w=500&amp;ssl=1 500w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/war.jpg?resize=300%2C193&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/war.jpg?resize=421%2C270&amp;ssl=1 421w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 500px) 100vw, 500px\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-1034\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Bon et \u00e9videmment du coup la guerre \u00e9tait un de leur hobby favori&#8230;<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>Et ce c\u00f4t\u00e9 temporaire montre bien que <strong>c&rsquo;est pas qu&rsquo;ils \u00e9tait trop \u00ab\u00a0primitifs\u00a0\u00bb<\/strong> pour \u00ab\u00a0inventer\u00a0\u00bb nos si beaux concepts d&rsquo;autorit\u00e9 et de hi\u00e9rarchie, mais que justement il faisait tout pour <strong>\u00e9viter de se les coltiner quand il y avait pas besoin<\/strong>. Au contraire, c&rsquo;est m\u00eame peut \u00eatre nous qui n&rsquo;avons pas su inventer des mod\u00e8les pour supprimer la hi\u00e9rarchie.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\nCes soci\u00e9t\u00e9s ont tr\u00e8s t\u00f4t pressenti que la transcendance du pouvoir rec\u00e8le pour le groupe un risque mortel, que le principe d&rsquo;une autorit\u00e9 ext\u00e9rieure et cr\u00e9atrice de sa propre l\u00e9galit\u00e9 est une contestation de la culture elle m\u00eame ; c&rsquo;est l&rsquo;intuition de cette menace qui a d\u00e9termin\u00e9 la profondeur de leur philosophie politique. &#8230; Les soci\u00e9t\u00e9s indiennes ont su inventer un moyen de neutraliser la virulence de l&rsquo;autorit\u00e9 politique.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Societes_de_labondance_et_du_temps_libre\"><\/span>Soci\u00e9t\u00e9s de l&rsquo;abondance et du temps libre<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>Mais du coup, quels b\u00e9n\u00e9fices pour une soci\u00e9t\u00e9 sans chef ? Et bien \u00e0 priori c&rsquo;est \u00e0 la fois des soci\u00e9t\u00e9s <strong>d&rsquo;abondance et de temps libre<\/strong>.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li> <strong>le temps libre<\/strong>: puisqu&rsquo;il n&rsquo;y a pas de chefs et autre parasites de l&rsquo;autorit\u00e9 (flicailles, juristes, bureaucrates, etc&#8230;) \u00e0 entretenir, et qu&rsquo;il n&rsquo;y a pas besoin de cr\u00e9er des surplus purement inutiles (la richesse ostentatoires utilis\u00e9 pour distingu\u00e9 les chefs des autres dans les soci\u00e9t\u00e9s autoritaires). Il n&rsquo;y a pas besoin de se casser le fion \u00e0 travailler comme des dingues: <strong>assurer de quoi survivre suffit.<\/strong><\/li>\n<li><strong>l&rsquo;abondance<\/strong>: sans chef, la soci\u00e9t\u00e9 s&rsquo;organise donc malgr\u00e9 tout pour sa survie. Mais la survie sur le long terme c&rsquo;est pas crever la dalle et boire son pipi (<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=SJlolhuyMKY\">wink wink Bear Grylls<\/a><\/strong>). Ca implique des surplus, des stocks et leur gestion, l&rsquo;\u00e9change avec d&rsquo;autres soci\u00e9t\u00e9s etc&#8230; donc une certaine abondance. Et surtout \u00e9videmment <strong>une meilleure r\u00e9partition entre les individus<\/strong> vu qu&rsquo;il n&rsquo;y a pas de chefs pour monopoliser pour lui une grande partie des ressources.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"primaute_de_la_question_autoritaire\"><\/span>primaut\u00e9 de la question autoritaire<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>Du coup, l&rsquo;auteur renverse clairement la balance entre <strong>la question du capitalisme et la question de l&rsquo;autorit\u00e9.<\/strong><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\nLa division majeure de la soci\u00e9t\u00e9, celle qui fonde toutes les autres, y compris sans doute la division du travail, c&rsquo;est la nouvelle disposition verticale entre la base et le sommet, c&rsquo;est la grande coupure politique entre d\u00e9tenteurs de la force, qu&rsquo;elle soit guerri\u00e8re ou religieuse, et assujettis \u00e0 cette force. La relation politique de pouvoir pr\u00e9c\u00e8de et fonde la relation \u00e9conomique d&rsquo;exploitation. Avant d&rsquo;\u00eatre \u00e9conomique, l&rsquo;ali\u00e9nation est politique, le pouvoir est avant le travail, l&rsquo;\u00e9conomique est une d\u00e9rive du politique, l&rsquo;\u00e9mergence de l&rsquo;Etat d\u00e9termine l&rsquo;apparition des classes.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Bref c&rsquo;est parce qu&rsquo;il y a des chefs qu&rsquo;il y a de l&rsquo;accumulation, pas l&rsquo;inverse. Si il y a personne pour \u00eatre chef ou plut\u00f4t si les chefs n&rsquo;ont pas de pouvoir, <strong>ils on ne peuvent pas exploiter la force de travail d&rsquo;autrui<\/strong>. Et ils ne peuvent donc pas accumuler de richesse (et de toute fa\u00e7on \u00e7a sert \u00e0 rien). Voil\u00e0, on refait le match de la 1ere internationale, Bakounine contre Marx et on l\u00e8ve les <strong><a href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2016\/08\/08\/test-psycho-es-tu-un-anarchiste\/\">drapeaux noirs !<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" data-attachment-id=\"1035\" data-permalink=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/raise-hell\/\" data-orig-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/raise-hell.jpg?fit=1920%2C1277&amp;ssl=1\" data-orig-size=\"1920,1277\" data-comments-opened=\"1\" data-image-meta=\"{&quot;aperture&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;credit&quot;:&quot;Anthony Devlin&quot;,&quot;camera&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;Student protesters target a police van during a demonstration against an increase in university tuition fees, in Westminster, central London= Wednesday Nov. 24, 2010. Several thousand British students protested Wednesday against government plans to triple tuition fees, two weeks after a similar demonstration sparked a small riot.  (AP Photo\/Anthony Devlin\/PA) UNITED KINGDOM OUT NO SALES NO ARCHIVE&quot;,&quot;created_timestamp&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;copyright&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;focal_length&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;iso&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;shutter_speed&quot;:&quot;0&quot;,&quot;title&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;orientation&quot;:&quot;1&quot;}\" data-image-title=\"raise hell\" data-image-description=\"\" data-image-caption=\"&lt;p&gt;Student protesters target a police van during a demonstration against an increase in university tuition fees, in Westminster, central London= Wednesday Nov. 24, 2010. Several thousand British students protested Wednesday against government plans to triple tuition fees, two weeks after a similar demonstration sparked a small riot.  (AP Photo\/Anthony Devlin\/PA) UNITED KINGDOM OUT NO SALES NO ARCHIVE&lt;\/p&gt;\n\" data-large-file=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/raise-hell.jpg?fit=640%2C426&amp;ssl=1\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/raise-hell.jpg?resize=640%2C426&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" width=\"640\" height=\"426\" class=\"size-large wp-image-1035\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/raise-hell.jpg?resize=1024%2C681&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/raise-hell.jpg?resize=300%2C200&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/raise-hell.jpg?resize=768%2C511&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/raise-hell.jpg?resize=406%2C270&amp;ssl=1 406w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/raise-hell.jpg?w=1920&amp;ssl=1 1920w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/12\/raise-hell.jpg?w=1280&amp;ssl=1 1280w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\" \/><\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"ez-toc-section\" id=\"Euh_gars_tas_pas_un_peu_oublie_un_truc\"><\/span>Euh gars t&rsquo;as pas un peu oubli\u00e9 un truc?<span class=\"ez-toc-section-end\"><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>Enfin il m&rsquo;a quand m\u00eame sembl\u00e9 qu&rsquo;il y&rsquo;avait<strong> un gros angle mort<\/strong> dans le bouquin: la question du patriarcat et du <strong>pouvoir des hommes sur les femmes.<\/strong> Parce que si il y a pas de pouvoir coercitif chez les am\u00e9rindiens, il y a quand m\u00eame <strong>une division genr\u00e9e de la soci\u00e9t\u00e9 tr\u00e8s forte<\/strong>. En gros les femmes font quasi tout le boulot et les mecs sont grave \u00e0 la cool.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"embed-youtube\" style=\"text-align:center; display: block;\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/1G-7smhMDVw?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=fr-FR&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"><\/iframe><\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\nPresque tout le reste du processus agricole \u2013 planter, sarcler, r\u00e9colter \u2013, conform\u00e9ment \u00e0 la division sexuelle du travail, \u00e9tait pris en charge par les femmes. Il en r\u00e9sulte donc cette conclusion joyeuse : les hommes, c\u2019est-\u00e0-dire la moiti\u00e9 de la population, travaillait environ deux mois tous les quatre ans ! Quant au reste du temps, ils le vouaient \u00e0 des occupations \u00e9prouv\u00e9es non comme peine mais comme plaisir : chasse, p\u00eache ; f\u00eates et beuveries ; \u00e0 satisfaire enfin leur go\u00fbt passionn\u00e9 pour la guerre.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Euh du coup, perso je suis pas un expert du truc hein, mais j&rsquo;ai quand m\u00eame <strong>la vague impression qu&rsquo;il y a un petit rapport de pouvoir et d&rsquo;exploitation l\u00e0<\/strong>. Je trouve qu&rsquo;il aurait \u00e9t\u00e9 int\u00e9ressant de r\u00e9fl\u00e9chir \u00e0 <strong>comment ce rapport de pouvoir existe dans une soci\u00e9t\u00e9 th\u00e9oriquement sans pouvoir coercitif ?<\/strong> (le livre ne dis pas clairement si pour aboutir \u00e0 cette <em>\u00ab\u00a0conclusion joyeuse<\/em>\u00a0\u00bb les am\u00e9rindiens tabassent leurs femmes).<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Pour nous qui vivons dedans, <strong>l&rsquo;\u00e9tat est une \u00e9vidence<\/strong>. Une de ces <strong><a href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/11\/24\/politique-101-a-bas-la-hierarchie\/\">structures hi\u00e9rarchiques p\u00e9nibles<\/a><\/strong> pour tout le monde mais dont il semble <strong>pas vraiment possible de se passer<\/strong>. Mais <strong>la soci\u00e9t\u00e9 peut elle exister sans \u00e9tat<\/strong>, et <strong>les soci\u00e9t\u00e9s sans \u00e9tat sont elle des soci\u00e9t\u00e9s \u00e0 qui il manque quelque chose ?<\/strong> Voila en gros les questions auquel ce bouquin essaye de r\u00e9pondre. <\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/La-Soci\u00e9t\u00e9-contre-lEtat.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"602\" height=\"602\" class=\"aligncenter size-full wp-image-967\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/La-Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9-contre-lEtat.png?w=602&amp;ssl=1 602w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/La-Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9-contre-lEtat.png?resize=150%2C150&amp;ssl=1 150w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/La-Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9-contre-lEtat.png?resize=300%2C300&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/lignesdorages.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/11\/La-Soci%C3%A9t%C3%A9-contre-lEtat.png?resize=270%2C270&amp;ssl=1 270w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 602px) 100vw, 602px\" \/><\/p>\n<p><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/wp.me\/p7tYAm-fz\">[clic pour lire plus&#8230;]<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[3],"tags":[18,23,10,11,9],"class_list":["post-965","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-liens","tag-anthropologie","tag-archeologie","tag-histoire","tag-livre","tag-politique"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.5 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>La Soci\u00e9t\u00e9 contre l&#039;Etat - Pierre Clastres - Lignes d&#039;Orages<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/lignesdorages.com\/index.php\/2017\/12\/05\/la-societe-contre-letat-pierre-clastres\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"fr_FR\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"La Soci\u00e9t\u00e9 contre l&#039;Etat - Pierre Clastres - Lignes d&#039;Orages\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Pour nous qui vivons dedans, l&#039;\u00e9tat est une \u00e9vidence. 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